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Shelby's "revolutionary power source" an EESU? « Competitors « Financial
Mon, 23 Feb 2009, 8:13pm #31
eestorblog
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are they using altairnano batteries?


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Mon, 23 Feb 2009, 11:27pm #32
rampage
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most likely, since cost is not a consideration.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 2:25am #33
sydd
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What do we learn from this specs:
http://www.theeestory.com/files/AeroEV_Drivetrain.jpg


Chat from 5 pm Mon, 9 Jan 2012:
"I WANT MY DAMN LONG DIPOLE, FOR CRIMINEY SAKES ! :)" - nekote
"But there are no farking long or short dipoles to speak of. Just some residual short dipoles relative to the plate" - Prof Bombay

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Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 2:30am #34
spaceballs_3000
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sydd wrote:

What do we learn from this specs:
http://www.theeestory.com/files/AeroEV_Drivetrain.jpg
Not sure what your getting at, with the information on that slide.


The only thing that will slowly change believer's minds is years of unfulfilled promises.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 4:57am #35
sydd
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my point is: Are these very impressive claimed specs even possible using lithium battery packs???

experts, please comment on this!

remember: we are talking about race cars!!!


Chat from 5 pm Mon, 9 Jan 2012:
"I WANT MY DAMN LONG DIPOLE, FOR CRIMINEY SAKES ! :)" - nekote
"But there are no farking long or short dipoles to speak of. Just some residual short dipoles relative to the plate" - Prof Bombay

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Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 7:42am #36
ricinro
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0-60 in 2.5 seconds?

I would think traction would be the issue. If you can draw enough power out of an EESU or battery then you can do these sprints.
I have a hunch that everything will be announced Feb 29 ;)


Thanks BTV for the blog

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Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 8:25am #37
spaceballs_3000
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sydd wrote:

... specs even possible using lithium battery packs
Yes.

Also the slides denote the value as peak, i.e. short bursts, many Pol-li can do large loads for short periods.


The only thing that will slowly change believer's minds is years of unfulfilled promises.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 8:44am #38
spaceballs_3000
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Also they could use a mix of battery and ultracaps for the extra bursts of power.
grab the maxwell spreadsheet calculator --> Link

Ten BMOD0165-P048 modules at 450v 833amps would last for 2 seconds for ~450v to ~350v range (or 4 seconds if voltage can go down 200v.)

And that be just on the ultracaps alone, in reality the battery likely could provide greater than 1/2 the needed burst power (of 375kW). Thus this would reduce the ultracaps modules it down to five modules.

Last edited Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 9:18am by spaceballs_3000


The only thing that will slowly change believer's minds is years of unfulfilled promises.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2009, 7:07pm #39
batglider
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Learned colleagues, I submit the following analysis for your valued consideration:

1. This quote from Shelbysupercars.com,
"The drive train under development will feature a revolutionary power source allowing for extended time between charging intervals.

2. This quote in an entrant in the Progressive X Prize competition that was subsequently removed from that web site. Take close note of the familiarity of the last sentence. "...an alternative energy vehicle that uses no gasoline and produces zero tailpipe emissions...The all-electric motor uses a combination of electromagnetic principles, newly designed circuits and proprietary electronic components. The design is based on test results that have produced unusually high electrical output levels that can be sustained for long durations, without the need for recharging.

3. Finally, here is an excerpt from an article in the subject company's home town gazette "The revolutionary engine that will power the D’ÅNTHEUS has passed the final design tests. Although the results are onfidential,...100 MPG will easily be surpassed...the project (moved) into the final stages with a new body design and negotiations for manufacturing the car in the USA & Germany."

Conclusion: Apparently, 20 years of research has gone into this 'game changing' technology. Like EEStor, it will either change everything, or change nothing. For the sake of our continuity I hope for the latter.

Regards from an enthusiastic transportation economist.

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Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 6:03am #40
nekote
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spaceballs_3000, I could go for conventional ultra capacitors to get to top speed.
But not to sustain it.

This rocket is talking about 200 to 250 MPH.

Without calculating it, I'm suspecting conventional batteries just can't maintain the power rate that such very high speeds would require.

Especially with Lithium ion's severe life cycle shortening issue, at anything over 50% discharge. Means you always need twice the weight / volume / expense of Li-ion for a given total energy.


Go DW Go - *economical* mass production

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Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 6:24am #41
sydd
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nekote, exactly my point!

could an expert calculate the battery requirements for typical race conditions based on the announcement from shelby

autoblogggreen wrote:

In an effort to maintain a modicum of credibility after suffering from what they now say was a "premature release" of inaccurate information, Shelby Super Cars (SSC) has published a revised version of its recent communiqué regarding their electric vehicle program. The unbelievable claim of being able to recharge their Ultimate Aero EV in ten minutes from an ordinary 110V outlet has now been amended to "...SSC's "Charge on the Run™" onboard charging system allows for 10 minute full battery recharges on a 220V service." That's much better. Still not imaginable, but much better.

SSC is aware of the misgivings out there and will attempt to transform that doubt into a huge publicity opportunity with a demonstration of their All-Electric Scalable Powertrain (AESP) technology at one of America's superspeedways following the official debut of the car. Company owner Jerod Shelby and some "notable" drivers will complete high-speed laps punctuated by 10 minute battery-recharging pitstops. If they successfully pull this off, we look forward to eating some of the most delicious humble pie ever known to man.

and the specs of the drivetrain and the car?

and again: could someone comment on the outlet vs. service issue (already done by nekote here?

thanks.


Chat from 5 pm Mon, 9 Jan 2012:
"I WANT MY DAMN LONG DIPOLE, FOR CRIMINEY SAKES ! :)" - nekote
"But there are no farking long or short dipoles to speak of. Just some residual short dipoles relative to the plate" - Prof Bombay

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Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 7:24am #42
spaceballs_3000
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nekote wrote:

spaceballs_3000, I could go for conventional ultra capacitors to get to top speed.
But not to sustain it.

This rocket is talking about 200 to 250 MPH.

Without calculating it, I'm suspecting conventional batteries just can't maintain the power rate that such very high speeds would require.

Especially with Lithium ion's severe life cycle shortening issue, at anything over 50% discharge. Means you always need twice the weight / volume / expense of Li-ion for a given total energy.

So your saying their own information on their own slide saying their "Nanotechnology Rechargeable Lithium Battery" is wrong then because it can't have an C discharge rate they clam?


The only thing that will slowly change believer's minds is years of unfulfilled promises.

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Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 7:37am #43
spaceballs_3000
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Also remember when it's up to speed, all you need to calculate the HP needed to maintain it against drag (i.e. wind, friction, etc..) So at these "very high speeds" what is the KW needed?

Goto --> Drag

i.e. example from the link above "A car cruising on a highway at 50 mph (80 km/h) may require only 10 horsepower (7.5 kW) to overcome air drag, but that same car at 100 mph (160 km/h) requires 80 hp (60 kW)"

So if you like to really do some good, get some Drag #'s for a performance sport cars (#'s exist online) plug them into the "power required to overcome the aerodynamic drag" equation provided by the link, and see that kW are needed at speed. That would help yourself(s) to figuring out what is needed of the battery pack.

btw wonder what battery they used EV speed record


The only thing that will slowly change believer's minds is years of unfulfilled promises.

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Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 1:21pm #44
RogerJ
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spaceballs_3000 wrote:

btw wonder what battery they used EV speed record

The Buckeye Bullet uses a hydrogen fuel cell.

Roger

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Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 2:51pm #45
nekote
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Ooopsies: Buckeye Bullet 2 is a fuel cell

From: http://www.buckeyebullet.com/history.htm
http://www.theeestory.com/files/Buckeye_Bullet_1a.png

Custom 500+ HP 3 Phase AC Induction Motor
Semi-custom DC-AC inverter / motor controller
2000 lbs of Prismatic Cell NiMH Batteries
4000lb total vehicle weight
5 speed manual transmission
Steel Spaceframe Chassis
Carbon Fiber Body
4 Wheel independent suspension
2 Parachutes + Conventional Breaks
Driven by a Professional Driver

Last edited Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 2:57pm by nekote


Go DW Go - *economical* mass production

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Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 3:32pm #46
ricinro
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Is Shelby SSC looking for investors? How can press releases be so inaccurate? They don't skimp on the hype but they certainly are loose with the details.


Thanks BTV for the blog

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Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 3:43pm #47
nekote
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Note to self:
The *Power* (aka HorsePower) to overcome air resistance varies as the *cube* of the velocity.

So if 50 MPH is 10 HP, 200 MPH is (4)**3 times as much power.
64 * 10 HP = 640 HP!!!

(250 MPH = (5)**3 = 125 times the power needed at 50 MPH)

Further note to self: Energy = Power * Time
At 4 times the speed, 1/4 the time, for the same distance.
Thus energy needed varies as the *square* of the speed!
Energy needed (against air resistance)= ~MPG.

Last edited Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 3:57pm by nekote


Go DW Go - *economical* mass production

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Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 6:20pm #48
spaceballs_3000
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nekote wrote:

Note to self:
The *Power* (aka HorsePower) to overcome air resistance varies as the *cube* of the velocity.

So if 50 MPH is 10 HP, 200 MPH is (4)**3 times as much power.
64 * 10 HP = 640 HP!!!

(250 MPH = (5)**3 = 125 times the power needed at 50 MPH)

Further note to self: Energy = Power * Time
At 4 times the speed, 1/4 the time, for the same distance.
Thus energy needed varies as the *square* of the speed!
Energy needed (against air resistance)= ~MPG.

This is why car designers try to reduce drag as much as possible (and still try to make it look good.)

Got a friend on a team that is going to attempting the landspeed record sometime in the future. And they got people doing aerodynamic simulations, and wind tunnel testing on the new parts added to the vehicle all the time. Drag is one of their many concerns.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1648062...


The only thing that will slowly change believer's minds is years of unfulfilled promises.

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Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 6:29pm #49
sydd
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nekote, bottom line is it's impossible to do it with lithium ion, right?


Chat from 5 pm Mon, 9 Jan 2012:
"I WANT MY DAMN LONG DIPOLE, FOR CRIMINEY SAKES ! :)" - nekote
"But there are no farking long or short dipoles to speak of. Just some residual short dipoles relative to the plate" - Prof Bombay

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Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 6:39pm #50
spaceballs_3000
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sydd wrote:

nekote, bottom line is it's impossible to do it with lithium ion, right?

Sounds like you have to believe it's not possible.

If 2003 battery tech can power the Buckeye Bullet 300kW electric motor to 321mph, who's to say what current battery tech can output?


The only thing that will slowly change believer's minds is years of unfulfilled promises.

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Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 7:08pm #51
rampage
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It's 100% possible to achieve the speed described. However, it would probably not be able to do that for a very long period of time. That said, a Bugatti Veyron at top speed runs out of fuel in 12 minutes, so it's not like people are expecting to go these speeds for extended periods of time.

A 10 minute charge of a 50 kWh pack is also possible from "220v service" ... as long as you have 1,200 amps. Hahaha.

Most of the 10 minute charging we hear talked about in regard to ESSUs and nanotech batteries would be done via some kind of 440v/600a commercial connection, not 220v... lol.

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Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 7:57pm #52
ONeil
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Just a wild shot here (because I strongly suspect we're talking about Altair batteries here), how about a SOFC running off of compressed NG?


Just assume everything I say about EEStor includes the phrase "if it works".
... 7 on the Lens scale (up from a low of 1)

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Wed, 25 Feb 2009, 10:27pm #53
nekote
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Pretty sure we're talking about energy recharge from an electrical recharging connection, of some sort or another.

Would eliminate NG (Natural Gas) or any other hydrocarbon, wouldn't it?
Being an EV, right?

.

That whacky / goofy 220V service possibility - just consider getting the full capacity of a typical utility pole transformer that would normally supply some handful(s) of homes.


Go DW Go - *economical* mass production

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Sat, 28 Feb 2009, 5:15am #54
Cossack
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Keerthi wrote:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/22/shelby-super...

The old and familiar joke:

"The system utilizes a lithium battery pack with the ability to charge via a 110-volt outlet in only 10 minutes. The pack, SSC maintains, provides a 150-200 mile range."

Sound pretty logical: ;)
If the CityZENN neeeds 5 min for recharge, a 1000+ hp monster would need 10 min. ;)

Do they think that everybody in the world is an idiot?

Last edited Sat, 28 Feb 2009, 5:46am by Cossack

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Sun, 01 Mar 2009, 5:00pm #55
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Any one with $250,000 to invest. Here’s your chance

Shelby SuperCars to Raise $5,000,000 via Private Placement

Shelby SuperCars, all American Automaker and Guinness World Record Holder, to raise $5 million to fund manufacturing, future model development and green technologies.
Shelby SuperCars, Inc. (SSC) announced that after remaining a privately-held company since its inception in 1999, the Company has officially launched an invitation-based, private offering through its Confidential Private Placement Memorandum.
SSC’s investment banking group heading the initiative, Sheffield International Finance Corporation, will undertake a range of activities in collaboration with SSC, including the implementation and oversight of the Company’s first acceptance of outside capital. Sheffield International’s CEO, Philippe Harari remarked, “We are honored to work alongside this American Pioneer at the pinnacle of its industry. SSC embodies American engineering and integrity at its best. The SSC Story is a proud example of what America can accomplish with determination and private capital.”
This offering represents the Company’s first acceptance of outside capital since its inception. To date, SSC has achieved its world-class status with internal funding only. The Company will take in $5,000,000 in first-round financing via the placement of its Series A Convertible Preferred Stock providing a 12% cumulative annual dividend to investors. The Company expects to entertain several exit strategies including a merger, acquisition, or IPO in the future. Interested parties capable of placing a minimum investment of $250,000 may contact Sheffield International Finance Corporation for a complete Investor Kit but the offering is said to be invitation based restricted to select invitees.
The Company’s use of proceeds will be used to finance the construction of manufacturing facilities, ramp up full-scale manufacturing, fund the development of the Ultimate Aero EV and to continue the research and development required to keep SSC exciting in the marketplace. With the proposed manufacturing facility and the expected showrooms established worldwide, the Company expects its projected sales in its confidential private placement to be very realistic.
While auto enthusiasts and high profile financiers are reeling over the company’s recent announcement of a 100% electric supercar, Shelby SuperCars remains on track to deliver 4 clean supercars by end of year 2009. With the SSC brand securely engrained into the international automotive industry, SSC will follow its ever popular Ultimate Aero and Ultimate Aero EV with a lower priced, higher volume 4-door luxury, super-sedan, the “Luxor.” The super luxury sedan is said to include reclining, heated and air conditioned rear seats, full time wireless internet and will maintain SSC’s famous performance being the first luxury sedan to be capable of speeds greater than 220 mph. Beyond GPS, Bluetooth, an infotainment center the luxury automobile will contain a fully capable personal computing system, accompanied by a 24 hour concierge service catering to the owner’s every need.
Media attention has been extraordinary. With reviews and write ups from almost every auto magazine and enthusiast worldwide, the frenzy around SSC has been unprecedented. Auto enthusiast Jay Leno said after his test drive, “As an American, I’m proud of this car. We’ve taken the title (of The World’s Fastest Car) away from the Europeans. We’ve won the World Series. This is very, very impressive.”
Unlike Tesla Motors who raised over $100 million in funding and produces what many believe is a flawed electric sports car, SSC has to date accepted no outside funding achieving its world record title with internal capital only. As Tesla seeks additional funding in the hundreds of millions of dollars, Shelby SuperCars will accept only $5 million to give up as little equity of the Company. As its first-round of financing, SSC Inc. is offering a limited slice of its private company to a select list of investors who share the vision of the manufacturers’ founder, Jerod Shelby.
Original Article Can Be Found Here. http://www.sheffieldinternational.com/ssc-raise...

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Sun, 01 Mar 2009, 5:09pm #56
rampage
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No one will invest in this piece of garbage company. They don't even know how to put out an honest press release.

$5 million? Hahahaha. Tesla developed its car with around $100 million. That is DIRT cheap. GM spends about $700 million to develop a car on an EXISTING platform. Shelby wants just $5 million from small time investors? That basically means that the company is not worthy of getting even $5 million from regular investors? There are internet startups getting $5 million all the time, even in this economy. They make freakin widgets for facebook and other such simpleton shit.

Excuse my while I go plug my Ultimate Aero EV into my 220V 1,400 amp socket. :)

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Fri, 08 Jan 2010, 8:45pm #57
karl
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eestorblog wrote:

are they using altairnano batteries?

Granted the production quantities for Shelby SSC's Ultimate Aero EV will be limited, so perhaps not enough to impact Altair production levels, if their technology was chosen by Shelby.

Here's a three year stock chart comparison for ZNNMF.PK and ALTI:

http://www.theeestory.com/files/chrtsrv.dll.gif

No indication that any rumors of Shelby choosing Altair's technology have caused any boost in their stock relative to ZNNMF.PK.


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http://dollarcollapse.com/articles/irony-andrew...

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Fri, 08 Jan 2010, 9:15pm #58
ccmcmm1
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Beta-voltaics + EESU?

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Fri, 08 Jan 2010, 11:00pm #59
student
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"SSC's Nanotechnology Rechargeable Lithium Battery pack is rechargeable in only 10 minutes on a standard 110 outlet and has a 150-200 mile range on a single charge."

Something doesn't add up here.


Bill Nye says limits for a dielectric are simply what have been demonstrated to date.


Jack LaLanne

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Sat, 09 Jan 2010, 10:00am #60
cechilders
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I guess the idea of Zenn getting the first units and using them to build Zennergy drives doesn't count?

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