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Carl Nelson Conversation « Open Forum « News, Reviews & Misc
 
Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 12:28am #31
wasmaba
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eestorblog wrote:

I believe Thubten started out his investigation of EEStor a long time ago by looking for evidence which supported his prejudged conclusions. I think he received enough criticism from this community to strive for objective fact gathering. He appears to be much improved.

I think Thubten's work here is objectively valuable to anyone trying to figure out what is going on at EEStor. That is not the same thing as saying everything he has reported is complete or true or both.

If you wish, you may note this interview as being a small victory for citizen journalism.
Congrats Thubten.

I look forward to the dissecting of this interview. There seems to be much to dissect.

Generous. Thanks.


EEStor’s legitimacy is a job for Carl Sagan and Sherlock Holmes. Times are a changing.
http://theeestory.com/posts/47263 TY B,TV,Nekote. http://theeestory.com/topics/1949

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 1:05am #32
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BigMig wrote:

http://www.theeestory.com/files/CN_GRID_LEVELING_PAT_LETTER_TO_PTO_SIGNATURE_11-25-2008.jpg

http://www.theeestory.com/files/CN__Ceramic_Precursors_Chelates__PAT_LETTER_TO_PTO_SIGNATURE_06-30-2009.jpg

http://www.theeestory.com/files/CN__OXALATE_PAT_LETTER_TO_PTO_SIGNATURE_10-14-2009.jpg

2nd Signature is an obvious forgery (or the other 2 are and the middle is real) notice the differences. :)


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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 1:06am #33
teslafan49
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ThubtenN, thank you for your post, great work. I admire your boldness to step up, and your decision to share this here first. Don't be discouraged by the negative feedback. The website quite often is more a source of dissection and dissent, rather than appreciation and encouragement. I agree with the comments of some those above. Carl Nelsons contributions are more likely from an experts opinion stance, than as a partner. His reluctance to take a lot of credit is due to that stance, rather than distancing himself from EEStor. Secondly, I feel he was trying to limit any credit attributed to him and saying that credit is due to those who have been the majority contributers. Thirdly, I agree that we may be understating the involvement of Tom Weir, as maybe Carl Nelson didn't mention Dick Weir by name, due to the fact that Tom Weir's contribution covers some of the areas discussed.


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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 1:29am #34
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nm

Last edited Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 1:41am by e'er


You tell me.

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 1:30am #35
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Bretspot wrote:

BigMig wrote:

http://www.theeestory.com/files/CN_GRID_LEVELING_PAT_LETTER_TO_PTO_SIGNATURE_11-25-2008.jpg

http://www.theeestory.com/files/CN__Ceramic_Precursors_Chelates__PAT_LETTER_TO_PTO_SIGNATURE_06-30-2009.jpg

http://www.theeestory.com/files/CN__OXALATE_PAT_LETTER_TO_PTO_SIGNATURE_10-14-2009.jpg

2nd Signature is an obvious forgery (or the other 2 are and the middle is real) notice the differences. :)

Hi Bret,

No, I disagree entirely. I am a bit shakey to the point where my signature varies from document to document and yet I can recognise it as my own. Carl's writing is a bit like mine. If he has "essential tremor" or Parkinson's that would account for it. I have the former and if I had just returned from the gym and someone came for me to attest some documents (as a justice of the peace) my own signature would similarly vary.

But I am of the view that lack of precision in employment dates if you are in and out of this business like Carl has clearly been, is entirely understandable and in no way misleading.

Just about every thread winds up with people doubting the veracity of statements made. Personally I am happy to accept the effort ThubtenN has put in and find it and CN's responses of value - whether I am typecast as a believer or no.

kind regards
ei

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 1:35am #36
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eestorblog wrote:

EEStor was not funded in 2001. No one was employed by EEStor at that time not even Dick Weir. <snip>

Kleiner invested $3mil in 2005. This would correspond with having funding to actually employ someone as Thubten has said Carl Nelson said.

Thanks, B. That's a very relevant point.

However, if Carl Nelson was one of the principals of Tulip Memory Systems and Titanium-X, throughout the 1990s, then his involvement with Weir & Weir extended over a much longer period of time than Thubten's purported interview claims:

Thubten wrote:

He said he was only with EEstor less than a year and didn’t regard having much to do with them, so valuing his time at EEstor was a mistake. He just had a relationship with someone he worked with in the 1970’s as collaborators.

Last edited Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 2:02am by Lensman


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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 1:47am #37
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Tulip/Titanium Memory Systems patents

[All patents for Richard Weir and Carl Nelson:]

1. Electrical-energy-storage unit (EESU) utilizing ceramic and integrated-circuit technologies for replacement of electrochemical batteries
Inventor: WEIR RICHARD DEAN (US); NELSON CARL WALTER (US) Applicant:
Publication info: US2004071944 - 2004-04-15

2. Vertical-magnetic-recording medium with barium ferrite magnetic layer
Inventor: WEIR RICHARD D (US); NELSON CARL W (US) Applicant: TITANIUM MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US6110557 - 2000-08-29

3. Coating of metal substrate for magnetic recording medium
Inventor: WEIR RICHARD D (US); NELSON CARL W (US) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US6103367 - 2000-08-15

4. Method for making ceramic substrates for magnetic-recording media
Inventor: NELSON CARL W (US); WEIR RICHARD D (US); (+1) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US5855951 - 1999-01-05

5. Method for making titanium or titanium-alloy substrate for magnetic-recording media
Inventor: NELSON CARL W (US); WEIR RICHARD D (US); (+1) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US5961792 - 1999-10-05

6. Method for manufacturing austenitic stainless steel substrate for magnetic-recording media
Inventor: NELSON CARL W (US); WEIR RICHARD D (US) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US5900126 - 1999-05-04

7. Protective overcoatings for magnetic-recording disks
Inventor: NELSON CARL W (US); WEIR RICHARD D (US) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US5624725 - 1997-04-29

8. Method for coating metal disc substrates for magnetic-recording media
Inventor: WEIR RICHARD D (US); NELSON CARL W (US) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US5626920 - 1997-05-06

9. Circularly symmetric sputtering apparatus with hollow-cathode plasma devices
Inventor: NELSON CARL W (US); WEIR RICHARD D (US) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US5490910 - 1996-02-13

10. Precision-etched textured stop/start zone for magnetic-recording disks
Inventor: WEIR RICHARD D (US); NELSON CARL W (US); (+1) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US5635269 - 1997-06-03

11. Magnetic recording medium having a ceramic substrate, an underlayer having a dense fibrous zone T structure, and a magnetic layer
Inventor: NELSON CARL W (US); WEIR RICHARD D (US); (+1) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US5681635 - 1997-10-28

12. Titanium or titanium-alloy substrate for magnetic-recording media
Inventor: NELSON CARL W (US); WEIR RICHARD D (US); (+1) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US5707705 - 1998-01-13

13. Method for forming protective overcoatings for metallic-film magnetic-recording mediums
Inventor: NELSON CARL W (US); WEIR RICHARD D (US) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US5453168 - 1995-09-26

14. Austenitic stainless steel substrate for magnetic-recording media
Inventor: NELSON CARL W (US); WEIR RICHARD D (US); (+1) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US5536549 - 1996-07-16

15. Coldwall hollow-cathode plasma device for support of gas discharges
Inventor: NELSON CARL W (US); WEIR RICHARD D (US) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US5457298 - 1995-10-10

16. Circularly symmetric, large-area, high-deposition-rate sputtering apparatus for the coating of disk substrates
Inventor: NELSON CARL W (US); WEIR RICHARD D (US) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US5232569- 1993-08-03

17. Magnetic recording medium having a substrate and a titanium nitride underlayer
Inventor: WEIR RICHARD D (US); NELSON CARL W (US) Applicant: TULIP MEMORY SYSTEMS INC (US)
Publication info: US5811182 - 1998-09-22

Last edited Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 4:53pm by Lensman


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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 1:49am #38
teslafan49
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@ Bret, I have to agree with ei, on the signatures. I watched as my father lived out his last year, and his signatur and writing changed several times, during that period. My Mother' swith mild Parkinson's and rapidly progressing demetia went from totally legible, to a hen scratching, in a matter of 3-4 months. I looked at the signatures several times, due to the variations, and there are giveaways that they were all signed by the same person. One more thing, I am NOT saying that CN has either Parkinson's or dementia, just the natural progression of aging.


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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 1:53am #39
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Hi Teslafan,

The longer this saga goes on, the worse my dementia gets:-)

LOL.

Kind regards
ei

Last edited Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 2:05am by energy investor

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 3:24am #40
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It is quite Obvious that Carl Nelson and Dick Wier were at the very least "co-workers" from the early 90s till at least 2006, and from then till at least 2009, were definately "collaborators" on EEStor science.

The facts do not lie.

so someone is Lying.

you decide who

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 3:39am #41
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I mean c'mon guys, It has always been accepted that CN and DW were partners or Long time collaborators. this acceptance wasnt because we were "Told" this by some anonymous source. absolutely not, We know this because we have the Documents and histories of these guys, it is public record.

these two guys have worked together long enough to know each other well.

Carl Nelson definately knows everything we know, why would he go on record to a journalist, saying these Public facts are now not true?

Sorry guys but this one stinks! and dont believe Carl is the stinker.

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 3:56am #42
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Here is an old article in Business Week dated September 03, 2005. It is about the KPCB investment in EEstor.

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/dealflow...

Justin Hibbard wrote:

Menlo Park, Calif. VC firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers in July led a $3 million preferred stock investment in EEStor Inc., a Cedar Park, Texas startup that is developing breakthrough battery technology.

The company was founded in 2001 by Richard D. Weir, Carl Nelson, and Richard S. Weir, who have backgrounds as senior managers in disk-storage technology at such companies as IBM and Xerox PARC. They previously co-founded disk-storage startup Tulip Memory Systems, where they won 16 U.S. patents.

Carl Nelson and Richard D. Wier Co-Founded at least 2 companys together from the early 90s through the Millenium.

thats 15-20 years of "Partnership" in Business "together" That We know of.

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 8:39am #43
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Its not unusual to sign patent docoments long after one leaves a company. In our case, it was part of the employment agreement.

In one case where th inventor was not located, the lawyeres attached a form and filed it.

And i have at least one or two patents with perople I never met.


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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 12:24pm #44
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Here is the BBQ comment article:

http://www.zenncars.com/media/documents/Canadia...

At a Texas barbecue with Carl Nelson about seven years ago, Clifford blurted out, “Is this
thing really going to work?” Nelson calmly replied, “Yes, absolutely it works.”

Last edited Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 12:44pm by redcapchew


"Now what they are proposing to do is wild. And there's lots of reasons in which some of these things could fail to be commercialized. I'm not saying whether it's worked or not and if we've announced it or not,"

Bill Joy - 2011

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 1:43pm #45
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thub, did you get a chance to ask CN if the EEStor EESU works?


"Now what they are proposing to do is wild. And there's lots of reasons in which some of these things could fail to be commercialized. I'm not saying whether it's worked or not and if we've announced it or not,"

Bill Joy - 2011

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 1:44pm #46
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Taylor wrote:

redcapchew wrote:

Here is the BBQ comment article:

http://www.zenncars.com/media/documents/Canadia...

At a Texas barbecue with Carl Nelson about seven years ago, Clifford blurted out, “Is this
thing really going to work?” Nelson calmly replied, “Yes, absolutely it works.”

Perhaps true, but I feel less confident knowning this is a DW only invention.

Why would CN be confident it works?

Perhaps all the effort is inventing a production line and the easy things like "no new science" or ED which appear to be known and downplayed by CN are actually the small potatoes in this story.


Thanks BTV for the blog

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 2:04pm #47
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redcapchew wrote:

Here is the BBQ comment article:

http://www.zenncars.com/media/documents/Canadia...

At a Texas barbecue with Carl Nelson about seven years ago, Clifford blurted out, “Is this
thing really going to work?” Nelson calmly replied, “Yes, absolutely it works.”

Here is a scary thought. What if Nelson was referring to the barbecue grill. LOL


"The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do" Walter Bagehot

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 2:06pm #48
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armstrong, lol I was thinking the same thing :)


"Now what they are proposing to do is wild. And there's lots of reasons in which some of these things could fail to be commercialized. I'm not saying whether it's worked or not and if we've announced it or not,"

Bill Joy - 2011

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 2:23pm #49
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whiskeythief wrote:

Thubten wrote:

I began the interview by saying that he had a cadre of fans who worshiped him.

Unfortunate introduction. Carl Nelson answered the rest of the interview on the defense. Seriously, that introduction is kook talk.

He obviously down played his role in response to that cringe-worthy image.

What you expected Thub to lie ;)


The only thing that will slowly change believer's minds is years of unfulfilled promises.

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 2:25pm #50
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BigMig wrote:

persinally I dont think any of those "trees" at EESTOR (CN/DW) will bear any fruits from questioning them...
http://www.theeestory.com/messages/1452428

LOL got to love believer logic... that might have been the case if CN said 'No comment' and then left, but that seemed to be not the case.


The only thing that will slowly change believer's minds is years of unfulfilled promises.

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 2:40pm #51
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armstrong wrote:

At a Texas barbecue with Carl Nelson about seven years ago, Clifford blurted out, “Is this thing really going to work?” Nelson calmly replied, “Yes, absolutely it works.”

Here is a scary thought. What if Nelson was referring to the barbecue grill. LOL

It was actually a reference to a new kind of electric spark grill igniter that Dick had invented.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/Lensman03/Smileys/SmileyBigGrinBounce.gif


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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 2:41pm #52
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Lensman wrote:

armstrong wrote:

At a Texas barbecue with Carl Nelson about seven years ago, Clifford blurted out, “Is this thing really going to work?” Nelson calmly replied, “Yes, absolutely it works.”

Here is a scary thought. What if Nelson was referring to the barbecue grill. LOL

It was actually a reference to a new kind of electric spark grill igniter that Dick had invented.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/Lensman03/Smileys/SmileyBigGrinBounce.gif

...with a capacitor in it;-)


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"The calm before the Eestorm"

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 4:13pm #53
e'er
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whiskeythief wrote:

Thubten wrote:

I began the interview by saying that he had a cadre of fans who worshiped him.

Unfortunate introduction. Carl Nelson answered the rest of the interview on the defense. Seriously, that introduction is kook talk.

He obviously down played his role in response to that cringe-worthy image.

Sounds to me like he didn't much care what he said to this anonymous whacko on the phone. I do the same thing to sales people that call me at home. Man, I wonder if they go off and post what I say like as if its the gospel.

Since most of the OP in this thread is loaded with statements that we can obviously prove to be false, I have no other option to simply ignore the entire supposed interview. I don't care who was lying or what their reasons for lying were, although I have a pretty good idea in both cases.


You tell me.

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 4:29pm #54
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"Sometimes a Cigar is just a Cigar!"

I think we are over-analyzing this just a bit;-)


Paul C in Austin
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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 5:11pm #55
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ee-tom wrote:

This is smoking gun evidence that, as I have argued since the MB interview, DW's technical effort is controlled entirely by him and all the high ED claims come from him alone.

It's "smoking gun" evidence that you Deniers will accept any negative report uncritically, regardless of how unreliable the source is.

Not that we needed yet another smoking gun to prove that; your trumpeting of the AFRL guy's jealous slam of Dick Weir as "proof" proved that.


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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 5:29pm #56
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Lensman wrote:

ee-tom wrote:

This is smoking gun evidence that, as I have argued since the MB interview, DW's technical effort is controlled entirely by him and all the high ED claims come from him alone.

It's "smoking gun" evidence that you Deniers will accept any negative report uncritically, regardless of how unreliable the source is.

Not that we needed yet another smoking gun to prove that; your trumpeting of the AFRL guy's jealous slam of Dick Weir as "proof" proved that.

Lens, I liked you better when you were on the fence :)

This interview is at least as credible as any B has done in the last 2 years. Yes you don't like the source, and yes you don't like the message, but that doesn't make it less credible.

I think everything said in the interview is perfectly reasonable. As many have said, CN would certainly sign and defend patent applications even if he isn't on the payroll anymore. That and the fact that DW and CN DID work together in the 1970s (its not like he denied knowing the man).

It's definitely a shame we don't have a recording to dissect into a million pieces tho :)


As of Feb 1, 2011 I'm officially no longer a believer. I even went back to my first post here on Sept 16, 2008 and found that somewhere along the line I gave EEStor an extra MONTH to prove it to me. They failed.

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 6:03pm #57
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WolverineFan wrote:

This interview is at least as credible as any B has done in the last 2 years. Yes you don't like the source, and yes you don't like the message, but that doesn't make it less credible.

Yes and no. Paraphrasing is unfortunately dangerous territory as the interviewer is putting an interpretation on everything said by those interviewed. thubtenN has been accused of bias in the past so needless to say his bias will be questioned here and whether the interview is presented in a true form.

Doesn't matter what anyone says, some will take it at face value and some will not. The same thing happened with the last interview posted with DW.

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 6:37pm #58
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Yup. Lots of believer rationalizing, accusing, and minimizing. Methinks there are a lot of people in denial.

In fairness, some believers accept the report as reasonably accurate.

Hey, believers can always fall back to the number of cars in the parking lot... or smiles for that matter. (:->)


Cherish what is most important in your life - family and loved ones.

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 7:22pm #59
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PNochio wrote:

Thanks ThubtenN

It seems that some of the things we have been told are a little off.

Its not a Nelson Nugget. Its a Wier ***** (needs a good word here).

This is not a negative or positive piece of information. It is a large correction to the record.

Thanks again ThubtenN.

Call it a "Wier widget"


Lens scale 0.01/.005 waiting for any real news. I was as high as 8/6

MY new wild assed stupid guess for reveal is
Sept 11 2010
April 22nd, Earth day and good Friday.
never

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Mon, 11 Apr 2011, 7:35pm #60
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Take it for what it is worth! So, now maybe the deniers can stop calling CN crazy and just pick on DW. DW has broad shoulders and gets all the credit and the burden of denier rants. LEAVE Carl alone!!


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