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If DW is running a scam he should turn his attention towards the Obama administration. They appear to be just giving away money. These guys got $118MM and did not produce anything.

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/206777...

The US government has always invested money in new un-proven science; I am not defending our current govt. decisions, I just want to know how you would draw the line? Oh, and whomever is in power usually gives their "friends" the research money. I am not saying it is right; just, what are you going to do about it? I have no solution due to the fact that I no longer belive I have any say in my govt. I still vote, I just don't believe that whomever is elected is going to change the establishment.

Have a nice day...

eeOrange wrote:

The US government has always invested money in new un-proven science; I am not defending our current govt. decisions, I just want to know how you would draw the line? Oh, and whomever is in power usually gives their "friends" the research money. I am not saying it is right; just, what are you going to do about it? I have no solution due to the fact that I no longer belive I have any say in my govt. I still vote, I just don't believe that whomever is elected is going to change the establishment.

Have a nice day...

I get your point. Its just frustrating watching these guys piss away our money.

The US gov't may have invested in the past but it generally spreads the risk and does it in smaller amounts.

yeah, because Obama is the one giving these people money...

Brian wrote:

If DW is running a scam he should turn his attention towards the Obama administration. They appear to be just giving away money. These guys got $118MM and did not produce anything.


http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/206777...

Typical dickhead trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. They did in fact produce batteries. They still are. The factory is just a few miles from my house. They have received 55 million not 118 million. They are re-organizing just as Kodak, the Airlines and many other main stream companies have done. They have 81 million in private investment. They made a big mistake backing Think.

Not quite the same as they took 118 million and produced nothing it is you lying jackass.

Yup. Must blame everything bad that happens on Obama and other Democrats. And thank goodness the Democrats are around. If they weren't, whenever something bad happened, Brian would have to *gasp* assign the blame to Republicans!

Because, you know, there must always be someone to blame if something goes wrong. Anything bad that happens is always someone's fault. If it rains on your birthday, figure out who the witch is and burn him/her at the stake!

It's not like chaos and entropy are part of nature.

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

--William Butler Yeats

cechilders wrote:

Brian wrote:

If DW is running a scam he should turn his attention towards the Obama administration. They appear to be just giving away money. These guys got $118MM and did not produce anything.


http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/206777...

Typical dickhead trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. They did in fact produce batteries. They still are. The factory is just a few miles from my house. They have received 55 million not 118 million. They are re-organizing just as Kodak, the Airlines and many other main stream companies have done. They have 81 million in private investment. They made a big mistake backing Think.

Not quite the same as they took 118 million and produced nothing it is you lying jackass.

"re-organizing". that sounds like a hell of a plan. Why not just give them more money.

Lensman wrote:

Yup. Must blame everything bad that happens on Obama and other Democrats. And thank goodness the Democrats are around. If they weren't, whenever something bad happened, Brian would have to *gasp* assign the blame to Republicans!

I think its probably the 'electric car' bit rather than the 'obama' bit that has failed.

Some of you dimwits need to read more than the headline:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-01-26/ene...

“While it’s unfortunate that Ener1, the parent company, has entered a restructuring process,” the investment of “private capital demonstrates that the technology has merit,” Jen Stutsman, a spokeswoman for the Energy Department, said in an e-mail. “The restructuring is not expected to impact EnerDel’s operations and the company has made clear that they do not expect to reduce employment at the site.”

Ener1’s grant application received bipartisan support from Indiana lawmakers, and the company got a $6.5 million Energy Department advanced-battery grant and a $4 million Defense Department research and development contract under the George W. Bush administration

Well then we can blame Bush and everything will be okay. Yup. Must blame everything bad that happens on Bush and other Republicans. And thank goodness the Republicans are around. If they weren't, whenever something bad happened, Lens and FMA would have to *gasp* assign the blame to Democrats! Oh wait, where have I heard that before?

Brian wrote:

cechilders wrote:

Brian wrote:

If DW is running a scam he should turn his attention towards the Obama administration. They appear to be just giving away money. These guys got $118MM and did not produce anything.


http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/206777...

Typical dickhead trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. They did in fact produce batteries. They still are. The factory is just a few miles from my house. They have received 55 million not 118 million. They are re-organizing just as Kodak, the Airlines and many other main stream companies have done. They have 81 million in private investment. They made a big mistake backing Think.

Not quite the same as they took 118 million and produced nothing it is you lying jackass.

"re-organizing". that sounds like a hell of a plan. Why not just give them more money.

Does not change the fact you are full of shit

Texas Bear wrote:

Well then we can blame Bush and everything will be okay. Yup. Must blame everything bad that happens on Bush and other Republicans. And thank goodness the Republicans are around. If they weren't, whenever something bad happened, Lens and FMA would have to *gasp* assign the blame to Democrats! Oh wait, where have I heard that before?

I guess you lack reading comprehension as well TB. 1) The company isn't going anywhere, the parent company is restructuring, the company has and will continue to churn out batteries

2)whether you like it or not does not change the fact that this company was a bipartisan effort.

Texas Bear wrote:

Well then we can blame Bush and everything will be okay. Yup. Must blame everything bad that happens on Bush and other Republicans. And thank goodness the Republicans are around. If they weren't, whenever something bad happened, Lens and FMA would have to *gasp* assign the blame to Democrats! Oh wait, where have I heard that before?

There is no body to blame. Why is it so hard for the ignorant rednecks to understand that? Governments invest in future tech. Not all future tech makes it. We do not know which future techs will really work until some body tries it. Some succeed but most fail. That is the normal order of things. It has been said in many ways before. The only way not to fail is not to try. We can not leave the future to other countries just because ignorant rednecks are too stupid to understand to process of innovation.

Texas Bear wrote:

Well then we can blame Bush and everything will be okay. Yup. Must blame everything bad that happens on Bush and other Republicans. And thank goodness the Republicans are around. If they weren't, whenever something bad happened, Lens and FMA would have to *gasp* assign the blame to Democrats!

Congratulations, you completely and utterly failed to grasp the point of my post.

The point is that instead of looking for a scapegoat when something goes wrong, we should actually discuss what went wrong, and see if there is a reasonable way to prevent similar failures in the future.

Pointing the finger of blame may make some feel better, but it solves nothing.

However, in this case it seems that it's rather premature to label the company a "failure". The title of the article and the title of this thread are wrong from top to bottom.

cechilders wrote:

There is no body to blame. Why is it so hard for the ignorant rednecks to understand that? Governments invest in future tech. Not all future tech makes it. We do not know which future techs will really work until some body tries it. Some succeed but most fail. That is the normal order of things. It has been said in many ways before. The only way not to fail is not to try. We can not leave the future to other countries just because ignorant rednecks are too stupid to understand to process of innovation.

Yes, and that's what I find truly troublesome about articles like this, and posts like the one starting this thread. The end result of such negativism may be to cause those who hand out grants to high-tech American manufacturing companies to cease doing so. For the United States to cease investing in our future is the fastest way to turn us into a third-world country.

There's already too much of that going on. What happened to the patriotism which the right-wingers claim to have a monopoly on? Seems they've abandoned it.

cechilders wrote:

There is no body to blame. Why is it so hard for the ignorant rednecks to understand that? Governments invest in future tech. Not all future tech makes it. We do not know which future techs will really work until some body tries it. Some succeed but most fail. That is the normal order of things. It has been said in many ways before. The only way not to fail is not to try. We can not leave the future to other countries just because ignorant rednecks are too stupid to understand to process of innovation.

By this logic, government should just throw any and all money at any technology company in the world. Nobody to blame, gimme a break. I thought libs were against corporate welfare, but when it's your boy handing out the goodies, there is no accountability required!

With all your namecalling, it appears the OP has hit a little close to home.

Lensman wrote:

The end result of such negativism may be to cause those who hand out grants to high-tech American manufacturing companies to cease doing so.

And I know there's one thing you can't stand, Lensman, it's negativism towards new technology.

Lensman wrote:

For the United States to cease investing in our future is the fastest way to turn us into a third-world country.

Because Lensman says so. You know about all that new technology that the the founders invested in was crucial for the few 100 years of our country.

Lensman wrote:

There's already too much of that going on. What happened to the patriotism which the right-wingers claim to have a monopoly on? Seems they've abandoned it.

Because now corporate welfare equals patriotism.

Greedo wrote:

Lensman wrote:

For the United States to cease investing in our future is the fastest way to turn us into a third-world country.

Because Lensman says so. You know about all that new technology that the the founders invested in was crucial for the few 100 years of our country.

Quit living in the past. We now have a global economy. Japan's guv'mint supports its industry so closely that the two are practically one. Germany has given a huge boost to its solar panel industry, so that now Germany is a world leader.

The USA needs to start competing with these countries, or else admit we're no longer a world leader.

Go and read Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs & Steel. Then maybe you'll understand that civilizations, just like species, have to adapt or die. If people like you stay in charge, the USA will go the way of Ancient Egypt and Imperial China. Hopelessly locked into an increasingly outdated society, doomed to become so weak that we will be conquered by a much younger and much smaller one.

That's not patriotism, it's exactly the opposite. As they said in the sixties: "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." Well, you and people who share your politics sure aren't part of the solution.

True conservatism means investing in the future. If you're not willing to invest in the future, then quit calling yourself a conservative.

The battery subsidiary web site has no specifications that I can find. This means that I (a systems level EE) can't design in their parts (as I do with other battery manufacturers). As an engineer, I would say that this company does not produce any off the shelf products for sale. They may be producing custom products, but that's a much smaller market; especially when they aren't associated with a vehicle manufacturer (like GM's custom battery manufacturer).

Lensman wrote:

As they said in the sixties: "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." Well, you and people who share your politics sure aren't part of the solution.

I prefer, "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."

Greedo wrote:

By this logic, government should just throw any and all money at any technology company in the world. Nobody to blame, gimme a break. I thought libs were against corporate welfare, but when it's your boy handing out the goodies, there is no accountability required!

With all your namecalling, it appears the OP has hit a little close to home.

I get angry because we are never going to solve anything with ignorance and hyperbole. The whole theme of this thread was how can we blame Obama for any failures because we do not like him. That is all. There is no attempt to solve anything or to improve anything or to understand anything. Just here is a chance to ding someone he does not like with half truths and BS.

You are no better. You suggest it is all or nothing. We support every crackpot or nobody. No one ever suggested giving everything to every tech. More companies are turned down than accepted. Aptera wanted some money but was turned down. V vehicle wanted fed money and got some state money. They were turned down. The people in charge are doing the best they can to invest wisely but no one knows what will work. So instead of a solution that keeps us in the tech game you make simple minded BS about giving everything to everyone who wants money. No one has done that, no one has suggested that except you. If you really believe the BS you are saying then you better start learning to speak Chinese They will clean our clock if we let them.

I will give you that I think backing individual companies beyond the development stage is not a good method. But at least it is doing something. I would prefer incentives to create a market and draw private capital. Incentives or direct investment, it still takes money and it is a good use of money.

.

Last edited Thu, 26 Jan 2012, 9:22pm by cechilders

Lensman wrote:

True conservatism means investing in the future.

Where did this definition of conservatism come from? Oh yeah, you just pulled it out of your ass.

Lensman wrote:

[i]If you're not willing to invest in the future, then quit calling yourself a conservative.

Where did I call myself a conservative? Oh yeah, you just pulled that out of your ass.

cechilders wrote:

I get angry because we are never going to solve anything with ignorance and hyperbole.

Good thing you're here to provide us with wisdom and truth.

cechilders wrote:

The whole theme of this thread was how can we blame Obama for any failures because we do not like him. That is all.

It's good to see that you can make sweeping generalizations about the motives of everyone in this thread after just a few posts. You must be wise indeed!

cechilders wrote:

You are no better. You suggest it is all or nothing we support every crackpot or nobody. No one ever suggested giving everything to every tech.

You were the one who justified it by saying "We do not know which future techs will really work until some body tries it. Some succeed but most fail." That means it's fine to spend taxpayer money on a venture that will probably fail.

cechilders wrote:

The people in charge are doing the best they can to invest wisely but no one knows what will work.

Wow! This is confidence inspiring! I like people spending my money when they don't know what they're doing.

Dude, you sound like a total Obama shill. You really should start thinking for yourself.

Are we surprised. Government is lousy at business and has zero business being involved. PERIOD!

I'll repeat that

EnerDel has received support from Republicans, including more than $4 million in federal grants under the George W. Bush administration.

Greedo wrote:

Lensman wrote:

True conservatism means investing in the future.

Where did this definition of conservatism come from? Oh yeah, you just pulled it out of your ass.

I guess you never heard of "The Ant and the Grasshopper", eh? It's one of Aesop's fables, and concerns the virtues of hard work and planning for the future. In case the point is lost on you, that's part of being a responsible member of society.

Speaking of your ass-- if someone gave you a map and a flashlight, maybe you could find yours. But only if you use both hands.

Greedo wrote:

cechilders wrote:

I get angry because we are never going to solve anything with ignorance and hyperbole.

Good thing you're here to provide us with wisdom and truth.

cechilders wrote:

The whole theme of this thread was how can we blame Obama for any failures because we do not like him. That is all.

It's good to see that you can make sweeping generalizations about the motives of everyone in this thread after just a few posts. You must be wise indeed!

cechilders wrote:

You are no better. You suggest it is all or nothing we support every crackpot or nobody. No one ever suggested giving everything to every tech.

You were the one who justified it by saying "We do not know which future techs will really work until some body tries it. Some succeed but most fail." That means it's fine to spend taxpayer money on a venture that will probably fail.

cechilders wrote:

The people in charge are doing the best they can to invest wisely but no one knows what will work.

Wow! This is confidence inspiring! I like people spending my money when they don't know what they're doing.

Dude, you sound like a total Obama shill. You really should start thinking for yourself.

Once again I will say it. This does not change the fact that you were a lying jackass. The did not get $118 mil and they do product a product. You can attack me all you want. You can try the look at the shiny ball dodge all you want but the facts have not changed. You use lies and bullshit to promote your dislike of Obama.

I might just vote for Romney because I am not a far lefty and I think Obama does kiss their ass too much. I am a middle of the road guy who wants real solutions. We will not get them with this kind of BS being the primary debate.